it's good half as many people as belgium. that's what makes a lot of these comparisons ridiculous. >> we should ignore them? >> yes, because they basically tell you nothing except to invest a lot of money in education and that's what we do here in the united states, putting more and more money into schools, with, really, very little to show for it. >> no, that's the opposite, in fact, because what's happened, what this shows is you put a lot of money into education, that's not working. >> we're doing great in spending money. we're right up at the top. >> so clearly something else has to be done. because that's not doing it for us. >> education is a value in and of itself. there's a lot to be said for having smarter 15-year-olds or 18-year-olds. but that debate shouldn't be had on, you know -- by saying this is what's going to predict our success or failures as a country going into the -- >> all right, you're right, it's not the only variable. there'se dynamic policy.